Michel Mathieu is head of Thales Avionics, which is exhibiting at the show for the first time as a dedicated division within the French conglomerate
Why has Thales restructured its avionics business as a separate division?
Avionics is a sizeable activity for Thales, with revenue of €2.4 billion ($2.95 billion). It's international, with 11,000 people, of which 5,000 are outside France and it has a unique business model in the commercial field. We need to share risks with the aircraft manufacturers, so Avionics deserves a special organisation and a special approach to do this kind of business.
Which product lines have been incorporated into the division?
Commercial, military and helicopter avionics, electrical products, all the services associated with these activities, in-flight entertainment (which is based in the USA), training and simulation (based in the UK, France, and a bit in Australia and Germany). There is also something that is very removed from avionics as a business sector, which is microwave and imaging solutions, and has been put in this division because it is a very process-oriented type of activity with a lot of production involved. It is in avionics that today you will find most of the production in Thales.
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How has the industry downturn affected your business?
We are living in a kind of paradox today. Everybody is aware of the financial crisis in air transport, with its negative consequences on the business and production volumes, so it creates some difficulties but at the same time we have never been so busy in our labs developing avionics for new aircraft. All our centres are busy, which is the result of the ambitions of Thales. It has been the strategy of Thales for a long time to develop systems on as many aircraft as possible. We started off being highly devoted and specialised to Airbus in France and we realised it was not enough. We need to be able to reuse whatever we develop for several platforms, and this is happening.
How challenging has it been running several development programmes simultaneously?
We have won probably more programmes than we thought we would, and we are a bit overwhelmed by the quantity of development. Historically we have never reached this level of activity, so of course it puts stress on the organisation, but that's something we are coping with. We are glad to be in a large group like Thales and to have access to other resources. We have had to shift many engineers to avionics to cope with the sheer size of the developments we have. This is of course a bit painful today because of the overload it creates, but it's preparing a healthy mid-term where we should see our volume increase - of line fit and support. We will soon enter a phase where we will have a strong foundation for revenues and it will be time to prepare the next generation of aircraft.
How have you fared in securing a presence on Airbus's latest widebody programme, the A350 XWB?
The A350 is probably the biggest and most interesting development we have today. We are the second biggest supplier after the engine manufacturer for Airbus on the A350, because we have a wide presence from the cockpit to the integrated modular avionics. We are supplying the inertial navigation units for the first time on a commercial aircraft. We are providing the electrical conversion systems and [our partner] Diehl the cabin, door and lighting systems.
Which other development programmes has Thales Avionics been working on?
A: We are on regional transports as well: the ATR 600 and Superjet 100 for Sukhoi. These are two ambitious programmes for which we provide the complete avionics suites. For the Sukhoi aircraft we have system responsibility where we integrate the parts delivered by other suppliers. The two programmes are now successfully reaching the end of their development and we are coming very close to the certifications. The Sikorsky S-76D is an interesting programme, for which we supply the cockpit avionics. On the military side we are busy on the Airbus Military A400M.
Is the A400M programme getting back on track?
For the general avionics we were on time for the first flight last year. The test pilots are delighted with the performance of our systems. We have one system which is ambitious - the flight management system - which is still to be fully developed. FMS are always difficult to develop, and this is a sophisticated application, as it is plugged into many systems in the aircraft. It is extremely complex software. The aircraft system engineers and our FMS engineers need to work closely to get the overall system working. On the A400M, especially challenging is the fact that it will be a dual FMS, because it has to have the behaviour of a civil aircraft FMS to insert the aircraft in the civil traffic flow, and it has to have special military mission capabilities.
The combination of all these modes makes it even more complex than the usual FMS. There is still a lot to do - the military part still needs a lot of development and tests together with Airbus. We are working closely with Airbus, but it will remain a technical and a management challenge because of the complexity, and it will keep us busy until the end of the development of the aircraft itself. There is a low-level flight requirement which is demanding.
Is Thales Avionics making progress in the renegotiation of the terms of the A400M industrial contract?
I'm quite optimistic that all these issues will be resolved. Overall it's a good aircraft. It's our job now to make it fly with what was promised to customers. There are financial difficulties; it's cost a lot of money for the whole industry and I cannot tell you that we are yet in full agreement on the financial aspects.
What lessons has industry learned from the recent spate of delayed aircraft development programmes?
We are in a field where things need to change. In the past I think we were all forced by the aircraft manufacturers to develop bespoke solutions and them to their needs. The technology was a limiting factor as well. We needed to design the pieces which could occupy a specific place on the aircraft and then be connected to a specific architecture designed by the aircraft manufacturer.
I think we should see more standards in the future and we should be able to develop equipment or software applications that can be reused at least for the basic pieces on various platforms for various customers. That's really our vision for the future - to probably have fewer spikes in our cycles of development which are hurting us and are difficult to manage.
Are you encouraged by progress to date with Europe's efforts to implement a next-generation air traffic management system?
I'm amazed that it has taken so long. On paper it's obvious, if you think of a system of systems where you gather the airport, control centres on the ground and cockpit in the air, and you have a good datalinking and satellite communications. You close the loop and start optimising the air traffic flow, and you can reduce the distance between aircraft and fuel consumption, and you can improve the trajectory and so on. On paper for engineers it's a pleasure.
How much can improved ATM systems contribute to reducing aviation's environmental footprint?
We are working on the Clean Sky programme and we are active on that initiative. We are on all the working groups working on optimisation and we think that by using all the future possibilities of the FMS we could help the aviation industry to save a lot. But the time taken to decide to launch a new aircraft, and then to get it into operation, is long.
It takes a long time to change the standards and that's why it will probably take 20 years. It started 10 years ago and we need another 10 years to see it active. It has started, and there are certain new functionalities that are on board our avionics, but to move to mass usage of these concepts it's rather long. There is no doubt that the savings will be huge - something like 50%. Everything contributes to that - you have the engine, ATM, avionics and the overall system. We are all working on that.
Have you discussed with Airbus the possibility of offering an avionics upgrade as part of the A320 "new engine option" package?
It is under discussion, but it's too soon to comment. There are various projects under discussion with Airbus.
Source: Flight Daily News
